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- That stipulation led to electronic versions of the game of bingo, which eventually took the form of Class II-style slot machines, known as Bingo Games. The Class II Bingo Games would essentially be a game of bingo, with prizes drawn from the overall money wagered. Those prizes, however, would be displayed as reel results on the slot machines.
- Indeed, the consistent innovations in the Class II market has effectively eliminated difference between Class II and Class III gaming. As a result, the experience a player obtains from a Class II machine is almost identical to the experience they would have playing a Class III machine, aside from the bingo card showing.
The same situation exists on the Class II bingo slot. Your bingo card determines whether you win or lose on any particular spin. In that sense, the card you choose does make all the difference in the world. But like with the dice, the odds are the same on every card.
Summary: Class II slot machines are found in Indian casinos (Class III is Vegas-style, or RNG). The reason why Class II exists is because originally, Indian casinos were only allowed to offer bingo, including electronic bingo. Modern Class II slot machines look and act just like an RNG slot machine.
At least two people must be playing in order for a Class II machine to run (one time I was unable to play because no one else was there). A bingo server draws a number about once a second. When you hit spin, the computer generates your bingo card and then it goes through all 23 possible winning patterns (22 normal patterns like T, corner spots, diamond, etc., and then this bizarre final 23rd one that a blackout in 75 balls wins a penny). A winning bingo pattern makes the reels stop at just the right spot so you win that much (no different than an RNG slot machine, just a different way of determining whether you win or lose). I read the help files on the machine but it doesn't explain everything. It doesn't explain how you get a red screen. Sometimes when you win, the screen turns red and the reels spin again, and when this happens, you always win something which is more than what you just won (i.e., not a regular free spin which can lose). I have never won a penny (that weird 23rd winning pattern). Probability of winning on a single payline is about 1 in 5 with the distribution of wins similar to an RNG machine, with lots of small wins and few large wins.
I've played these early in the morning when the casino is almost empty and at busy times to see if I can detect any pattern of advantage or disadvantage, and I can't tell. I've won when it's dead and lost when it's dead and I've won when it's busy and lost when it's busy.
Does anyone know if there is a player advantage or disadvantage to playing Class II slot machines when the casino is quiet or busy? Is the probability of winning exactly the same for bet 3 as it is for bet 1? (with the only difference being that the jackpot pays a bigger multiple of bet amt, similar to video poker)
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In general, the competitive element of a class II slot accounts for only about 1% of the return. It will generally go to whoever completes a certain pattern first. You could be competing with other players anywhere in the casino or even the world. The competitors may be playing on entirely different themed machines too.
The other 89%, or so, of the return comes from 'consolation prizes,' which are fixed prizes for fixed patterns.
It is that 1% of the competitive element that makes them legal.
In my opinion, if you're going to legalize slots, then just legalize them. Quit kidding yourself that class II slots are really bingo.
I've designed some class II slots so know a fair bit about the regulations and how they are designed.
In general, the competitive element of a class II slot accounts for only about 1% of the return. It will generally go to whoever completes a certain pattern first. You could be competing with other players anywhere in the casino or even the world. The competitors may be playing on entirely different themed machines too.
The other 89%, or so, of the return comes from 'consolation prizes,' which are fixed prizes for fixed patterns.
It is that 1% of the competitive element that makes them legal.
In my opinion, if you're going to legalize slots, then just legalize them. Quit kidding yourself that class II slots are really bingo.
Hey Wizard, I hate to necro this thread, but I was wondering - how is the RTP calculated for class II bingo slots when you never know how many people are going to be competing for that prize? As you mentioned, it's a small portion (1%), but how is that 1% calculated, if it can be? And wouldn't a busy casino theoretically bring down the RTP of the machine? Is there some sort of universal assumption on the average numbers of players that might be in on a game or something?
Class Ii Slot Machine Strategy Tactics
Thanks so much!Class II slot machines look and act just like an RNG slot machine. Does it similar to skill based gaming machine or slot machines?
I would say they operate most similarly to Pace-O-Matic machines. Some other machines just, “Play,” the pre-seeded pool of spins over and over, whereas (from what I can tell from the patents) POM’s randomly select a result from the remaining pool of spins, kind of similarly to the Class II central server.
I also thought POM banks had a linked pool of spins, but that’s apparently not necessarily true is because I found two POMs in one location—one is out of $0.40/bet spins on a particular game and the other isn’t.
I would say they operate most similarly to Pace-O-Matic machines. Some other machines just, “Play,” the pre-seeded pool of spins over and over, whereas (from what I can tell from the patents) POM’s randomly select a result from the remaining pool of spins, kind of similarly to the Class II central server.
I also thought POM banks had a linked pool of spins, but that’s apparently not necessarily true is because I found two POMs in one location—one is out of $0.40/bet spins on a particular game and the other isn’t.
I wouldn't say Class II slot machines operate like POMS. The results are actually completely random & based on a math model, just like traditional slots. The difference is that the randomness is not based on where the reels land, it's based on the outcome of the bingo draw. Making it play 'like a slot' as a designer can be challenging because getting the desired volatility etc can be difficult to translate from traditional math models.
I wouldn't say Class II slot machines operate like POMS. The results are actually completely random & based on a math model, just like traditional slots. The difference is that the randomness is not based on where the reels land, it's based on the outcome of the bingo draw. Making it play 'like a slot' as a designer can be challenging because getting the desired volatility etc can be difficult to translate from traditional math models.
I agree with you, and that's actually kind of my point. The Class II slot machines randomly choose a result from the, 'Pool,' of remaining results in the central server and POM's do the same exact thing, according to their patent. The difference with POM is that the entire pool of results seems to be exclusive to an individual machine, (or maybe they can sometimes be linked) but either way, it's randomly chosen from the remaining results.
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Hey Wizard, I hate to necro this thread, but I was wondering - how is the RTP calculated for class II bingo slots when you never know how many people are going to be competing for that prize? As you mentioned, it's a small portion (1%), but how is that 1% calculated, if it can be? And wouldn't a busy casino theoretically bring down the RTP of the machine? Is there some sort of universal assumption on the average numbers of players that might be in on a game or something?
Thanks so much!
The way it tends to work is the game will group 2 or more players together who made a bet at nearly the same time, say within a second of each other. Then the first player to complete some particular pattern (in the fewest balls) will win a very small prize. I wish I could take it further, but that's about all I know. When I do a class II game, the game maker will somehow tack on a competitive element, I only get asked to do the 'base game.'
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I would say they operate most similarly to Pace-O-Matic machines. Some other machines just, “Play,” the pre-seeded pool of spins over and over, whereas (from what I can tell from the patents) POM’s randomly select a result from the remaining pool of spins, kind of similarly to the Class II central server.
I also thought POM banks had a linked pool of spins, but that’s apparently not necessarily true is because I found two POMs in one location—one is out of $0.40/bet spins on a particular game and the other isn’t.
The ones I have seen don't work like that. The outcome is based on a fair bingo card and ball draw. I'm not saying there isn't anywhere that does it the way you describe, but I think I can speak for California (when there were class II), Oklahoma, and New Mexico.
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fitzbeanI agree with you, and that's actually kind of my point. The Class II slot machines randomly choose a result from the, 'Pool,' of remaining results in the central server and POM's do the same exact thing, according to their patent. The difference with POM is that the entire pool of results seems to be exclusive to an individual machine, (or maybe they can sometimes be linked) but either way, it's randomly chosen from the remaining results.
Hmm, as far as I know, Class II (Bingo) slots are not selecting a result from a pool of remaining results or a pool at all. Class II bingo is legal because you are actually playing Bingo behind the scenes, so mechanically, it must actually operate exactly like live bingo.
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I think the biggest difference comes in the user-determined features. Like a bonus where you select 1 of 3 symbols to determine your prize. On a class III machine, you really can get any one of the three prizes. On a class II machine, you WILL get the pre-determined prize.
I've often wondered about that...
My freeplay comes in the form of a 'match two amounts' and is always between $175-$1000...in the many years I've been getting it, I've NEVER got more than $175...(and I get it twice a month)
I think the biggest difference comes in the user-determined features. Like a bonus where you select 1 of 3 symbols to determine your prize. On a class III machine, you really can get any one of the three prizes. On a class II machine, you WILL get the pre-determined prize.
That would be both interesting and, alas, thoroughly irrelevant. Sorry. See, in both cases the machines ultimately will pay back a certain percentage on average, regardless of the specifics peculiar to each class. Also, you can't tell the difference.
Where it makes a difference is in VP. In a mahcine where you really play, the payback is a function of the pay table and the player's skill (memorizing a strategy table is a skill). ON one of the rpedetermined machines, how you play doesn't matter.
So on regular slot machines it is irrelevant of they are Class II or III, but it does matter in VP?
Yes, on class II machines VP strategy is worthless. You can hold on to garbage, and either a 'genie' will convert your hand to what you were supposed to win or a 'match card' will award what you were supposed to win. When playing these machines in Alabama (a class II jurisdiction) for tiny amounts of money, I would intentionally hold garbage to make the 'genie' appear...lol
Also the only slot jackpot I've won is on a class II machine (Texas Tea for $200). I hit some random bingo pattern where I needed ~22 hits in like 48 calls or something. The result appeared as 5 Texas Tea symbols like it would on a class III machine. If one had the math skills/inclination, he or she would be able to calculate the payback of the machine as it listed all the bingo patterns it would pay out.
That would be both interesting and, alas, thoroughly irrelevant. Sorry. See, in both cases the machines ultimately will pay back a certain percentage on average, regardless of the specifics peculiar to each class. Also, you can't tell the difference.
Many of the bingo-based games actually have a little digital bingo board displayed. You really can watch it play a little 1-second-long bingo game to determine if any winning combinations are present. It's pretty snarky, really:-)
Many of the bingo-based games actually have a little digital bingo board displayed. You really can watch it play a little 1-second-long bingo game to determine if any winning combinations are present. It's pretty snarky, really:-)
Yeah, and at the casino I was at, you also were allowed to change your bingo card between spins. I always picked one with 69 in the corner...lol
I understand that a Class II machine differs from a Class III machine in that the Class II acts like a bingo game and when you push the button the outcome is determined and the the reels and outcome is just for show. A Class III machine has a RNG instead. However, isn't the outcome of the Class III also determined the minute you push the button and whatever comes up is the outcome from whatever numbers came from the RNG when it was pushed? I just don't see much of a difference unless I am totally missing something(which is entirely possible!) Also, are all electronic table games classified as Class III machines?
Not necessarily. Here's the relevant law:
http://www.nigc.gov/Laws_Regulations/Indian_Gaming_Regulatory_Act.aspx
There have been many cases decided on what games are/are not class II. The NIGC has a whole list of them. Read those for a clearer picture.
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I understand that a Class II machine differs from a Class III machine in that the Class II acts like a bingo game and when you push the button the outcome is determined and the the reels and outcome is just for show. A Class III machine has a RNG instead. However, isn't the outcome of the Class III also determined the minute you push the button and whatever comes up is the outcome from whatever numbers came from the RNG when it was pushed? I just don't see much of a difference unless I am totally missing something(which is entirely possible!) Also, are all electronic table games classified as Class III machines?
The answer is simple -- if you play a class II video poker device, and you threw away a dealt quad (or RF), you will STILL end up winning on that specific hand, and based on posts on this website, your winnings is comparable or the same via a bonus card or a genie as the original dealt hand. That is to say if your bingo card (or pull tab) was destined to win, you will WIN no matter what you do on the flop.
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Try that on a Class III machine. If you threw away a dealt quad, you just urinated away a huge winning hand!Class Ii Slot Machine Strategy Operator
Think of a Class II machine game like a pull tab. The outcome on the pull tab is immutable. Image everytime you hit the spin button on a Class II device, it is akin to buying a pull-tab with replacement as if the pool of pull-tab is a constant. (With physical pull-tabs, it is done without replacement.) The randomness aspect is picking a winning combination out of the fixed pool of pull tabs.
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